Wednesday, April 24, 2013

A Pity Party- THIS IS ALABAMA BASKETBALL

In the last 21 years:

- we have advanced past the 1st week of the NCAA tournament ONE time (2004)
- have ONE SEC regular season title (2002)
- ZERO SEC Tournament Championships (Finals in 1992 and 2002)
- Since Antonio McDyess we have had ONE 1st round pick (Gerald Wallace... and he doesn't even acknowledge he had a cup of coffee @ Bama)

I'm probably as down on Alabama basketball as I ever have been. I don't see next season being a success in any of my required criteria (SECTC, SEC regular season, Top 25 finish, 2nd week of NCAAT) which probably doesn't bode well for Anthony Grant. Saying that, I think he's safe next year regardless of what happens on the court as the buyout on his contract drops to roughly $500K in 2015 (it's roughly $1.5 right now).

I'll continue to support the team despite my convictions... I'll travel to whatever pre-conference tourney we go to (provided it's a destination I would like to visit/revisit), attend one or 2 home games and probably the games @ UGA and/or UTK as my oldest really enjoys Alabama basketball.

I figure I have 30 more years left on the planet... would be nice to see us play in the Final Four once.

47 comments:

RAY said...

21 years. and what's amazing to me is the failure to understand the frustrations by some. and with Lacey's departure i think it's now clear it isn't just some of fans seeing this.


i think grant’s answers to the questions about lobbying the NCAA selection committee after the SEC tournament were very telling. basically grant just didn’t feel it was his job to get out there and sell his team to the committee.

we all know what Coach Saban has taught us about selling the process to the player. if they don’t buy into what your trying to do you’re up the creek without a paddle. every offseason since grant has been there at least two players have transferred.

when you have your signature recruit jumps ship two years in, it means something.


but i also know Coach Saban gets whatever he wants for his team. every advantage.


basketball doesn't get that. and until it does, you'll likely continue to wait for that final four, no matter who the coach is.

Edd Gee said...

first of all it really sad that's lacey leaving.but i said at the end of the season he would.there's something going on inside this program.but it seems like none of the head brass cares about the basketball program.as long as the mighty football team lights up sportcenter that all they need.i know i've said some pretty bad things about cag in the past.but let me explain how i got there.last year when all the suspension was going on he was been interviewed and he said this is my team and i make the decision.he made it sound like he has nobody to answer to he could do what ever he wanted.and i thought fans and player was part of that team to..but we have bigger thing to worry about.one of the reason lacey came to alabama was to play ball with levi.im hoping he dont follow lacey

crimsontider said...

It is not the program, it is the coach. Alabama is the second winningest program in SEC history, it has had plenty of success, and Grant has more money, and better facilities than any of them. Mississippi State made the final four, look at their facilities. Look at Duke's facilities. Grant should campaign for upgrades in the facilities, but he does not, that is on him. He does nothing to campaign for the program, and it is fairly obvious that he is much more interested in making himself look good than making the program look good. Therefore, I have no sympathy for him.

crimsontider said...

Bobby, I dont think the buyout is as big of an issue as you say it is. Alabama is paying him 2 mil a year. Alabama can pay him 1.3 mil to prevent him running the program further into the ground. Wasn't Gottfried's buyout around what Grant's is?, and what Gottfried did for Alabama, runs circles around what Grant has done.

crimsontider said...

I'll backtrack a bit, and say that the university needs to get more basketball people in the athletic department, and scrape the tide pride points system. Other than that, it is all CAG.

bobbyjack said...

To be honest I'd be happy with Sweet 16s and an occasional SECT or SEC Regular Season Title. We are a long way away from that.

I don't feel the need to bash Grant right now... I think most who read this board know where I stand regarding this (NOTE- my views do not necessarily reflect the other contributors to this board).


The thing is with some luck and good evaluations, we could sneak back into the national picture. Until then, all we are is a distraction between football season and the spring game.


Regarding the buyout... there is no Nick Saban we can hire to justify paying $1.5 million and then (over)paying another $2-3 million for known success. I am convinced that whenever we are looking for a new coach it should be a top assistant from a blue blood school instead of some green mid-major coach.

crimsontider said...

Bruce Pearl is a "known success" just saying........

bobbyjack said...

I'd welcome him, but after the issues we had with the NCAA there is no way Pearl sets foot on this campus unless he's a commentator. We need a Pearl-type coach as this job is more than coaching... it's promoting the program like Wimp and Gottfried (before he stopped) did to be successful.

crimsontider said...

Why is there "no way he steps on campus?" His show cause ends, next year, so it should not be an issue. He would be one of the top 10-15 coaches in the country, and he has fallen right in Alabama's lap. He has Bill Battle connections. He lied about a Bar B Q, other than that he is everything Alabama needs in a coach.

Msmilie said...

No, he isn't. He was a despised figure in the coaching community in the wake of the Deon Thomas/Jimmy Collins incident and then he lied to the NCAA without batting an eyelash. As Jimmy Collins says, he's a "snake". You want to jettison Anthony Grant for losing players to transfer and not winning enough games, fine. But don't tell me the University of Alabama can't do better than Bruce Pearl.

Msmilie said...

You honestly don't know that he hasn't campaigned for upgrades. You like to throw a lot of dirt around here, tider. It really annoys me. You just throw crap out there and hope it sticks without a bit of proof. Something seems to be lost in the communication between Grant and his players, resulting in transfers. That is a problem and deserves discussion. Speculation without facts does not deserve discussion.

Ray and myself are diametrically opposed over Anthony Grant (and a good many other subjects, I would bet) but he's not whistling dixie when he discusses the lack of resources at Alabama compared to other schools. You could bring in a top ten rated college basketball coach in asap and they would encounter much more resistance than you can possibly imagine.

crimsontider said...

There is no better coach from a basketball standpoint on the market than Bruce Pearl, if the goal is winning basketball games, than yes Alabama can't do better than Bruce Pearl.

crimsontider said...

If Grant campaigned for the program publicly, and made an effort to engage the fan base, I would cut him some slack.

crimsontider said...

Does anyone know if Alabama is any closer to hiring an assistant to replace hipsher?

RAY said...

CT, i really wish you'd lose this fixation with Pearl. Pearl is a two-time loser who also is a Phil Fulmer style snitch.

http://underscorebleach.net/jotsheet/2005/03/bruce-pearl-illinois-iowa-recruiting-scandal

the guy ACTUALLY wore a wire to record an opposing coach.

this guy was really THE perfect fit for UT. that they had to can him is a testament to the greasy two-time cheating snitch he is.

i mean, if he's too dirty for knoxville............

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt2BAfhUHX0

Edd Gee said...

can anybody predict what kinda team we gonna to be next year.and who the leader going to be.

Edd Gee said...

i mean where do we go from here.i feel like like d.j. i've been hack.i made some comments earlier but there no longer here.but i will qoute again.i said alot of bad thing about cag.but it was because what he said last year when thing was going wrong with tmitch.he said this was his team.what about the players and the fans.he thinks he can do what he wants.i want you"ll to think about this tmitch what happen to him not beening drarted because of thing that happen at alabama.him and another player draft fail because of problems they had with the coach hurt them in the nba.you think lacey want to get that rep uncoachable.your tell player if we can hold this team to 60 point we can win.and you got two players levi and lacey who use to scoring 30 or 40 in a game since the 8th grade.this kids love basketball because its fun.but when you dont enjoy it it time to go.so thanks lacey good luck.you are heck of a ball player.

Edd Gee said...

come on crimsontider tell me i,m wrong or something.no gut no glory we are the young bloods or new bloods.what do you think.i would hate to ask finebammer really im not i in his league.he tells it like it is!

crimsontider said...

Bruce Pearl can unlock the potential of this basketball program, he took UT to 3 sweet 16's and an elite eight. His worst sin, hurting one of our biggest rivals. Go get him Bill.

crimsontider said...

I have little doubt that you and M will jump off your high horse the first time he leads us to the second weekend of the NCAAT. Plus was what Pearl did, any worse than what Wimp did to get fired from Alabama? No, but he is still a hero here. You know why? He won, and at the end of the day that is what it is about winning, and Pearl would win and win big at Alabama.

Msmilie said...

No, it's not just about winning, you scurvy little cockroach. Believe it or not, you can win and not be a snitch, a liar and an embarrassment. It's dangerous to start putting winning above all else. That kind of attitude usually ends up with more losses than wins.



I don't know the full facts regarding the Wimp case, but my old man was old school and he was adamant that Wimp was set up. My father said there were plenty of people in power positions at the time that were not thrilled about the level of interest and excitement around the basketball program as if basketball could ever overtake football. Again, I don't know all the facts and the last thing I want to do is speculate after calling you out on it, but if I were you, I would do a little more research before you compare Wimp Sanderson to Bruce Pearl.

DJC said...

Assuming no more attrition, which is a huge assumption at this point, I would say we will be a lot like we were this past year, maybe slightly better depending on what the newcomers bring to the table. We will be a top half of the SEC team and be on the bubble. 8 seed at best, but probably a bubble team that gets in as a 12 seed or goes back to the NIT. Releford will be the leader. He's a senior, he's the pg, and he's our best player. It's time for him to take on that role.

DJC said...

I can answer that question. The reason he never sets foot on campus is the Board of Trustees, in particular, one Paul Bryant Jr. Remember last time the football team received sanctions? They were enhanced because we were in the repeat offender window thanks to one Tyrone Beamon. There is no way he will stand for hiring a basketball coach coming off of an NCAA show cause and risk bringing any additional regulatory scrutiny to the athletic department as long as Nick Saban is collecting crystal footballs every year. As long as football is rolling, you can bet your bottom dollar than anybody we hire in basketball or any other sport will have a pristine NCAA record. Bruce Pearl, obviously, does not meet those qualifications.


Now, I'm not necessarily saying I agree with that approach. But it is what it is. We can forget about the likes of Bruce Pearl. It's no more realistic than hiring Coach K at this point.

DJC said...

This is simply wrong. Coach Grant insisted upon facility upgrades when he was hired, and received everything he asked for. The women got booted to Foster's because he wanted his own practice floor. Renovations were done to the locker room as well.


I suppose he could have campaigned for a new arena, I've been wanting one for years, but I suspect he was realistic enough to know that was not going to happen. But that's not on Grant. There are plenty of valid reasons to criticize coach Grant, but not asking for (and getting) facility upgrades is not one.


As an aside, I think quality of facilities is an overstated factor in the success of a program. Florida's facilities may be the worst in the SEC. Vandy's are awful as well, and last year not withstanding, they've been a solid program over the years. Conversely, auburn's brand new digs haven't helped them one bit, and South Carolina probably has the nicest facility in the conference. Duke is one of the all time most successful programs, and they basically play in a church with cramped quarters.

Msmilie said...

Hard to say at this point. We have to see who else, if any, are leaving. If the roster remains intact I believe this can be a good unit of players next season. Releford will be the leader. He was trying to take on that role as the season progressed. I also think Levi can be a leader for this team. The problem is, with only 10 scholarship players, if a couple of guys go down long-term with injuries, it could get dicey real quick.

If guys stay healthy though, this can still be a good team. Releford will be a preseason SEC Player of the Year candidate, Levi and Retin were arguably the two best players down the stretch, Coop quietly had a solid season and, if healthy, Bama should still be 2-deep at every spot on the floor. It wouldn't hurt my feelings though if Grant could find another player or two for next season simply for depth purposes. A transfer who can play immediately, JC recruit, etc. would be ideal.

It doesn't matter whether or not next year's team is an NCAA tournament team. They have to be an NCAA tournament team. There is too much negative criticism at the moment, particularly in the wake of the Lacey transfer. Grant needs to restore some momentum to try and level things out a bit with the fans.

RAY said...

happy, i'd just like to know if after what he did for j. green, what, if anything, grant did to try and keep Lacey in the fold.


i saw this coming watching on tv. i'm not the only one. he had to see this coming. had to.


i'm really getting pissed with all the negative commentary about Lacey. (not here but elsewhere) the kid was two-time AMB and could have had his pick of schools.


Lacey tried to be a team player. and he will be sorely missed.

RAY said...

and for the record, i don't think i've bashed grant in this thread. see the commentary about pearl.


that's bashing.

crimsontider said...

Good point, could very well be right, but I think the fact that we paid two mil a year for Grant, who at the time was one of the top mid major coaching prospects in the country, and the building of a new recruiting facility/ Coleman Coliseium upgrades really showed me something. It showed me that Alabama does want a successful program, and the success of the golf, softball, and gymnastics program, has also shown me that Alabama wants to be a championship program at every sport. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel that basketball is more of a priority than some people on here think. It is obviously not football, but it is the second highest revenue sport.

crimsontider said...

I will give him credit for getting the recruiting facilities, but he has not campaigned enough for the program publicly to win over the fans, the fan base wants to like him, but it is virtually impossible.

crimsontider said...

"Wimp was set up" theres my point. Finebammer, just because Wimp was set up does not make it ok. You could say Pearl was set up, as he was ratted out by Aaron Craft. Speaking of Ron Steele, could Trevor Lacey be CAG's Ron Steele? Both were completely mismanaged.

Msmilie said...

Ray: I have no idea what, if anything, Grant did to keep Lacey in the fold. My opinion, based on no facts whatsoever, is that Lacey came into college with the idea that he was a 1-2 year college player and then off to the NBA (a not uncommon perception among most college players). When he didn't feel like things were moving along quickly enough for him or his family, he decided to jet.

I'm sure he saw it coming. It must not have been too bad because it didn't manifest itself in suspensions the way it did with Green and Mitchell, but I'm sure he saw it coming. I think it came down to Grant realizing this kid had other priorities so he didn't try to talk him into staying. Grant's mindset might have been, if this kid doesn't want to be here, it's better to let him go try and find what he is looking for than holding on to him and potentially making relations worse.



I don't think Lacey deserves any negative commentary. He gave two years and I think he was a solid player both years. I think some people are ripping him because they expected his high school legend to follow him to college, but he was never a high volume shooter at the college level (only 9-10 shots per game) so he subsequently didn't score the ball the way he did in high school, he usually played under control and within the flow of the game. His jumper wasn't as pure as I thought it would be and, for a kid with ambitions of playing point guard, his ball-handling and ability to protect the ball isn't quite there yet, but he was a solid player and I wish he was coming back next year.

Msmilie said...

Hmmmm, I wouldn't compare Lacey to Steele. Not yet. Ron Steele was arguably a lottery pick if he enters the draft after his sophomore year when he was still relatively healthy. I'm not sure Lacey, even under the best circumstances, is a lottery pick right now.

Msmilie said...

I think more fans like Anthony Grant than you imagine. Most fans I talk to are frustrated with the state of the program, but a lot of it stems from the fact they really want Anthony Grant to succeed. I would say many fans are pulling for Anthony Grant as much as for basketball itself.

crimsontider said...

Not my point, my point was that after Ron left the team because of the coach, all of the Gottfried apoligists dissapeared, similar to the way the fanbase has reacted to Lacey leaving the team because of Grant.

Msmilie said...

No, the Gottfried apologists disappeared after Gottfried's teams started to go into the crapper and couldn't even make the NIT. And then there were rumors of him putting his name out there related to coaching searches simply to negotiate more money from the university, and finally the rumors regarding him and certain female students. And, to be quite honest, Gottfried still has a lot of apologists in the fanbase. Hell, people were telling me a few weeks back crap like "hey, at least Gottfried took us to the tournament" even after Gottfried tanked one of the most anticipated seasons in NC State history. That is a hungry fanbase and they are slowly starting to figure out that Gottfried is all flash, no substance. A million Ron Steeles would not have changed that.

crimsontider said...

Some of our fans have convinced themselves, that making the tournament as an 8 seed, even if you lose in the first round like CMG did is an accomplishment. Really sad.

RAY said...

dude, pearl flat out lied to an NCAA investigator and got caught. that's not a set up. Wimp f*cked up. big time. i just wonder why someone didn't pull him to the side and say, "Coach..........."

RAY said...

i remember when happy here, was a gottfried apologist.


ahhhh, those were the days, eh happy??

crimsontider said...

Yea, I don't think I have seen any bashing of Trevor Lacey on this thread. (correct me if I am wrong), but I have seen some Alabama fans blame this on Lacey, and say that he had an attitude issue. That is absurd, Lacey is a great person, and a team player, and loved Alabama, and wanted to take the program to the next level. He is a 5 star prospect, and a two time Mr. basketball in the state of Alabama, he saw an oppurtunity to take his game to the next level, and gave CAG one last chance to give it to him, and Grant refused. Obviously I wanted Lacey back for selfish reasons, but I am glad for his sake that he did not make the same mistake, a guy like Ron Steele made, and did not stay around 4 years and keep faith in a coach who has absolutely no idea how to get the most out of his players. Lacey should be applauded for that, and I will be rooting for him.

crimsontider said...

You could say Pearl "f'ed up" too. If Wimp did not lead Alabama to 6 sweet 16s, you would not be making excuses for him. If Pearl leads Alabama to multiple sweet 16s, which he will if he is hired, you will make the same excuses for him. You can refuse to hire Pearl because of his lack of character, if you want, but at least be consistent about it, can't have it both ways.

crimsontider said...

Your wrong, some fans turned against him after we underachieved in 2012. as proven by the attendence being down 4 percent, and Coleman being quiet all year, except for the UK, and the NIT games. He did manage to renew excitement in the program after a 6-1 start that concluded with a buzzer beating loss @ Cincy. He then blew it by laying a huge egg at home to an awful Dayton team, the inexplicable losses to Mercer and Tulane took even his biggest supporters aback. The 37 point abomination @ Auburn officially divided the fan base. The transfer of Alabama's most hyped recruit in nearly a decade alienate the fan base. Lets be honest, there is no more interest from the fan base in basketball right now than there was 4 years ago, and now Scarbinsky has written an article putting Grant on the hot seat. If the media follows the fanbase's lead and turns on Grant then he is done, no coach survives that. Remember the fans turned on Mark Gottfried long before the media did.

crimsontider said...

Does anyone know what Nick Jacobs was talking about when he tweeted that "things could not get any worse?" Worse from what?

Msmilie said...

Could have been talking about a tummy ache. Who knows? Better yet, who cares?

Msmilie said...

I would not consider myself an apologist for Mark Gottfried. I was excited about the hire and was a supporter of him in the first half of his tenure, but his team's inability to win on the road, tendency to play really high or really low, advance in postseason and progress in the wake of success made me wary of him in his later years. Man, have I been dealing with you that long? That's frightening.

Msmilie said...

I'm wrong about the people I've talked to????? Okay.Why did the crowds turn out in support for the NIT games??? I'm going to bet I've discussed Anthony Grant with a higher percentage of fans than you have so I'll stick with my findings. Thanks a lot.

crimsontider said...

The crowds turned out to support for the NIT games because the tickets were like $5 and it was general admission. Alabama gave out 150 free tickets to students before the Northeastern game, 20 were picked up.

bobbyjack said...

I know Ray... it was a general comment.