Tuesday, March 03, 2015

Fresh Meat- Senior Night vs Ole Miss 7PM EST (6PM CST) SECN

The Black Bear Rebels come into Tuscaloosa looking for their 20th win of the season and to improve their NCAAT status (only an epic collapse would leave them on the outside looking in). Meanwhile, we are looking to rebound from an AUful 2nd half in Nashville and creep one step closer to .500 in conference play.

Notes from Ole Miss
Stats

Before I get into Ole Miss, I hope we have a decent crowd tonight to send off Levi Randolph and Rodney Cooper (not to mention Dakota Slaughter who IMO should have been given more time on the court). Those 2 along with Trevor Lacey and Nick Jacobs were supposed to be the class that took us to the promise land... as you know only half of them are left. Also in that class was the great Moussa Gueye and Retin Obasohan.

Anyways, Stefan Moody and Jarvis Summers leads the way at 16.4 and 12.4 a game. LaDarius White also averages double figures scoring. On the boards the stats are shared as 4 Rebels average 4.8 a game or more.

Statistically, Ole Miss isn't that good... 43% FG and 34% from beyond the arc, but have a +3 rebounding margin and shoot an insane 77.5% from the charity stripe as a team. Stefan Moody is over 91% for the year.

The big difference between Ole Miss and Alabama is Ole Miss closes games as they are 10-7 (if my math is correct) in games decided by less than double digits. We are like 2 for eleventy billion.

Again, this is a game we can win. Ole Miss, despite the 10-6 conference record is not as good as they seem. Let's hope we can send the seniors out with a win tonight.

Note- I put this up without much of proofreading so if anything is off... sorry. Just wanted to put something together before the game as the day job will probably get in the way of me watching this one.


57 comments:

needtoknow said...

I'll get this party started by saying it will be a shame if no one shows up to send off Randolph, Cooper and Slaughter tonight. It doesn't matter if you like Grant or not. Don't yo u like Alabama basketball? If you live close to Tuscaloosa you should be there tonight. To me these guys have been wonderful reps for the University. Are they perfect basketball players? No they're not but they've worked their butts off for four years causing zero problems/issues and t h at is what should matter. It will reflect negatively on our fan base. I found it very telling a week ago when only one person on this forum complimented Randolph for becoming an academic All American. Are you fricking kidding me that he is that little appreciated? COULD YOU DO IT? You can bash the coach all you want. He gets paid well for the abuse. However if I'm a good basketball player why would I want to play for these fans? Have at it gentlemen. All the excusers will have one but there is no excuse.

I live in North Carolina. Long way from Tuscaloosa. I just hope if we change coaches we also change the fans.

citadeltidefan said...

Fans aren't showing up because their afraid that Battle will retain Grant. They know that the only way that they can protest and show their displeasure at the state of the program is by not showing up to games. It also gives Battle the message that if Grant is retained the crowds will only get more abysmal. I also will add that most fans don't want to watch the paint dry brand of basketball that Grant runs. No fan base (with the exception of the blue blood schools) would show up in big numbers to watch that brand of basketball when the team is below average and constantly blows leads and NEVER beats top tier teams! You pointed out a few days ago that Vandy fans support their program in big numbers despite their record. The difference is they run a fun style of basketball with a coach who has consistently proven that he can win. Fans want to support the team and players but have had their hand forced to not show up due to the administration and coaches severe incompetence. Keep in mind as sad as it may be that big time college sports is also a business..when you put out an awful product no one is going to buy it. I appreciate what the seniors have done for the program but unfortunately their administration has so far shown them unfair apathy and incompetence in retaining an awful coach in addition to poor program promotion. See what it I did there? It goes both ways buddy...the fans are not to be blamed at this point.

CTider said...

First losing home season in SEC play in 46 years. The only good news is that now we won't have to watch this team play in the NIT. This team sure as hell doesn't deserve to play any postseason ball. The only difference between this team and last year's? The schedule. This team is every bit the disaster that last year's team was and probably even more disappointing. There were probably 2,000 people at the game tonight. Anthony Grant is a joke.

Msmilie said...

A 2-0 start to league play, and it looks like a 5-11 finish unless this team shocks the hell out of me on Saturday. As of now, this team isn't even in the NIT. It's going to make Bill Battle's decision mighty easy. I hate it, I really do. I thought Grant would do good things at Alabama, but he just never could get over the hump. Hopefully he'll be able to land on his feet somewhere else, because I just can't see a scenario in which Battle can justify retaining him for a seventh season, short of winning the SEC tournament next week. I do think he's a good coach, and he will prove that in his next job. Hopefully, he learned some lessons from the last six years that will assist him in any future opportunities.

It's quite troubling that in the last two games it has been the defense that has let Alabama down in the second half. Ole Miss scored 55 in the 2nd half, and went on a 17-03 run to take control after Alabama led by 5. Levi, Jimmie and Dakota played their hearts out. No reason to hang their heads.

Yes, there are at least two games left, but it looks like the program will have a new coaching staff in place next season. Bill Battle and the university have to take this new hire seriously. Pearl is a swine, but he's a problem that has to be taken into account. And the rest of the SEC is actually getting better. Kentucky is Kentucky. LSU and A&M are bringing in big time classes next season, Arkansas appears to be moving now under Mike Anderson, and Florida will be back as long as Donovan sticks around. Teams like Ole Miss, Vanderbilt and Georgia will remain solid (Mark Fox signed a 2 year extension today). Alabama can't fool around here. Yes, Michael White and Steve Prohm are promising young coaches, but Alabama went that route the last 15 years with mixed results. Open up the pocket book and go get an established guy. If they can't land an established guy (Ben Howland, Gregg Marshall, Archie Miller, etc.), then I have no problem with pursuing guys like Prohm or White.

Changes also have to be made within the structure of the program. Coleman Coliseum is the obvious starting point, but those are bridges that can (and must) be crossed once the coaching situation is resolved. For now, it's imperative that Alabama move quickly to have some guys lined up. There are some good young players on this team, but they're not going to stick around very long if Grant is fired unless there's another guy in place that encourages them to stay. The short-term, regardless of the strength of the hire, could be another 2-3 rough years depending on the foundation that remains following a coaching change.

But I think a change has to happen. A fresh start is now the best thing for both the university and Coach Grant.

CTider said...

The fans sure got their moneys worth tonight!

Msmilie said...

He's not a joke, you asshat. You're a joke. You're an imbecilic, insulting little prick. Anthony Grant is a good man. He's a good coach. It just didn't work out for him at Alabama. You're pissed because the team you pull for is on the cusp of starting over and you're irritated. Cool. Changes are about to be made, and Anthony Grant will go gently into that good night. But he was a guy who did it the right way, and tried to build a good program. He just didn't win enough games. That doesn't make him a joke. I would reserve judgment of him until we see what he does at his next job. And he will have another head coaching job.

needtoknow said...

CT give me a break. You're the joke. YOU sound like trailer trash. Did you even attend the University of Alabama? We all want to know. You'll probably get your wish and Grant will be gone but Grant is a class act and that sure aint you. I don't know anything about you but you got no class. Anthony Grant would wipe you out.

disqus_lLg81JC3CF said...

Someone comment on this question: Did CAG use his last 2 time outs? I am perflexed: Why not use the clock to form some type of strategy? Players continually showed effort, but not so on coaching when we were behind.

CTider said...

It didn't work out because he didn't do what was necessary to make it work out. It worked out for Wimp. It worked out for CM. It worked out for Gottfried. Ultimately the program is not going to the next level until the athletic department makes a real dedication to the program, but Grant has the program at it's lowest point since pre CM Newton. We should NEVER be this bad. And, yea Anthony Grant's a millionaire so he'll probably be fine either way. No disagreement there.

CTider said...

"Did you even attend the University of Alabama?" Yes, I did. And I hate to see the university put out a product this pathetic.

Msmilie said...

If you think it worked out for Gottfried, you're more delusional than I though. Gottfried took the program to five NCAA tournaments, but he wasn't a great coach, and I would say his last two years there were just as apathetic from a fan perspective as Grant's have been. It's insulting to put him in the same breath with what CM and Wimp accomplished.

needtoknow said...

Also your damm right I attended the U of A. Got a master's degree. They also taught me a little class when I was down t here.

CTider said...

Grant's tenure makes Gottfried's look like John Wooden's. Gottfried got to the elite eight in his sixth year. Our fan base was ready to build a statue of Grant if he just snuck into the tournament in his sixth year. Here our some stats for you and Bill Battle.


Hobb's last two years: 32-30
Gottfried last two years: 35-30
Grant's last two years: 30-32
Grant's record against top 50 teams" 11-62


Other then keeping it in his pants, there is nothing Grant did better than Gottfried at UA, even compared to Gottfried's worst years. Hell I don't even think you can compare the apathy of the Hobbs era to the Grant one. This is much worse. Did you see the crowd tonight? And, just to clarify, no I'm not saying that we should have kept Gottfried (he was here at least a year or two longer than he should have been just like Grant) and I don't even think he's a very good coach, but he had a level of success here over a five year span that deserved to be acknowledged. It may be wrong to put him in the same sentence as CM or Wimp, but it's no more wrong than putting him in the same sentence with Grant and Hobbs.

needtoknow said...

Well how about showing a little class? Anthony Grant is not a JOKE. That is so insulting. You will probably get your wish so be happy. Seriously would you dare say that to t h e man in person?

256Bradley said...

the team did its job avoiding da bad losses it was up 2 Grant 2 coach them how 2 win close games. this team has obvious talent they jus dnt respond well 2 Grants coaching schemes

needtoknow said...

I hope/pray we work as hard on the fans and venue as the coach. Seems like this forum could help in that regard.

Msmilie said...

Shut up. It comes down to winning games, yes or no? He didn't win enough games. That's it. End of story. You better just hope the university makes the right hire or you'll be bitching and moaning for 5/6 more years.

Msmilie said...

Since you're Johnny Research tonight. I would bet that Grant's road record was better than Gottfried. MG's teams would regularly be bludgeoned on the road. At least Anthony Grant's teams comepted, for the most part night in, night out. Again, he just didn't win enough games.

CTider said...

Grant's record away from Coleman the past two years: 3-22
Number of winning season's for Anthony Grant away from home: 0

Msmilie said...

How? We have as many readers as writers. No, it has to start with the university committing itself to building a positive environment. Something as simple as including the students in the program, giving them good seats for games would do a great deal of good for the fan environment at games. People don't just show up to Duke games to watch the basketball or because Duke is good, The Cameron Crazies have played a big role in not only creating a great environment, but encouraging television and fans to come out to the game to witness them. That happens because the students are put at a spot on the floor where they can make a difference.

CTider said...

"Shut up. It comes down to winning games."
That's what I've been telling you for two years. You've been playing the "But he's such a nice guy" card.

CTider said...

Finally something we agree on!!!

Msmilie said...

Um, that's not what I asked. You're sticking your tongue in Mark Gottfried's ear telling us all how great he was. I asked you what his road record was vs Grant's. I'll bet you Grant's was better. Furthermore, compare the number of blowouts suffered between Mark Gottfried's teams and Anthony Grant's. Again, I'll bet there were far less blowouts in Grant's tenure. Gottfried made the tournament five times, but his teams were typically soft, lacked mental toughness, and were prone to stop competing in games. Say what you want to about Grant, but his teams typically gave great effort on the floor.

Msmilie said...

I never said winning wasn't important. I was willing to be patient with him because he was a good guy that was trying to build a program the right way. I have no regrets in supporting him for six years. It just didn't work out. It happens.

Msmilie said...

Huzzah!

needtoknow said...

Agreed. Get the athletic office to understand this.

Msmilie said...

You and I aren't as far off as you think. I just don't believe in insulting people who try to do things the right way. If you have a friend or family member who fails at something, but tried to do it the right way, do you call them a joke?

Msmilie said...

No problem. I've got Bill Battle on speed dial.....

RichTide said...

I think the rest of can agree CTider's despise for Grant matches your despise for Gottfried. You're both tainted. Grant was a great man but an average coach and poor program builder. Gottfried was a great program builder but an average coach and flawed man. Grant rarely got blown out but never beat teams he shouldn't. Gottfried got blown out but beat 3-5 teams a year he shouldn't.

Ronald Steele said...

Tough loss. I just hate the seniors had to leave their last home game (maybe post season) with an half empty arena. From a fans perspective I get it I just hate it for those seniors who worked so hard and did everything that could for the program. Just wish it ended better from them.

I think everyone wants the program to be a winner and I think majority of people want (or wanted depending on your current view) coach grant to be that guy. I'm just encouraged that the myth of people don't care about basketball is being dispelled. Of course it will never match football but there is a high demand for a basketball winner.

It's been interesting seeing things as a fan. As a player or coach u live in a bubble and can't really understand but as a fan and outsider I get it. It's going to be interesting. I know coach grant fairly well, and he more than anybody knows he isn't getting the results. I know those players and staff are working hard and it's not a lack of care or effort as some people say.

It's a business at the end of the day and I think coach grant and those players understand that regardless of what happens.

Drifter said...

Thanks, Ronald. How's the knee?

RichTide said...

RS - I understand if you don't want to comment on this. I've never questioned the players' or Grant's lack of effort or determination but the staggering poor fundamentals and lack of a strategy was head scratching to me at times. The lack of spacing, the lazy passing, the inability to set screens for our best shooters, the recklessness on the dribble drive (we HAD to lead the NCAA in offensive fouls under Grant's tenure), ineffective use of time outs, inability to execute after a time out, lack of set plays, the list goes on. Even what used to be a Grant strength, defensive fundamentals, disappeared in the past 2 years. Poor weakside help, vulnerability to backdoor cuts, late rotation, inability to box out, etc. I'm not an ignoramus - I coached women's DIII VB and Juco bball. Just curious your perspective as a former All SEC player.

Msmilie said...

I don't despise Gottfried. I just don't like the revisionist history people try to spin about his time at Alabama because of the struggles under Grant and Gottfried's redemption at N.C. State.

RichTide said...

Build a winning product, the fans will come. Coleman was rocking under Wimp's glory years and yes Gottfried's. I've never seen Coleman as electric as when we beat Florida at the buzzer to win the SEC. Bama needs an AD willing to commit to bball. We haven't had that since Bear.

Ronald Steele said...

I agree all the below. I don't have a good answer for this as I didn't play for coach grant. My brother did and from our conversations there was a bit of a shift two years ago. I think coach grant is a good defensive coach and 2 years ago he had personnel of guys who really embraced that end of the floor. Also playing a slow pace will help your defensive numbers. Defensive can tell part of the story but not the traditional stats all the time.

I agree with the fundamentals but I watch all games in college and there are very few teams who emphasize these things. Very very few. Especially at the higher majors. The games have turned into all ball screen no spacing no off the ball screening or action and a bunch of set plays. This is most teams. Coaches just hope they have talented enough players to bail them out. Most of the scoring doesn't come through team work. This isn't to be critical it's just my opinion.

Ronald Steele said...

I'm doing well thanks for asking. Thank you guys for commenting on the blog. I enjoy the discussion and passion very much. Let me know how I can help

RichTide said...

You've never been short on Gottfried insults before the revisionists appeared. He had his many personal flaws and shortfalls as a coach but making an Elite Eight, 5 NCAAs in 10 yrs and program's first ever #1 ranking are not insignificant achievements. My beef with Grant has always been about fundamentals. He ran a clean program with class. As a grad, I'm very thankful for that. I was ecstatic about his hire and befuddled by his inability to win. But in the end, his coaching tenure was unremarkable. Like it or not, Gottfried achieved more. Yes lower lows, but higher highs as well.

RichTide said...

And lest anyone think there is a redemption going on at NC State. The same maddeniing roller coaster is going there. Yes, he beat Duke, @UNC and @Louisville but he also lost to Wake and BC, two of the ACC bottom feeders, and needed a half court heave by Lacey to beat Ga Tech, another bottom feeder. The fan base is already restless and he's still making the same disappointing personal decisions there. Not sure that's redemption.

Msmilie said...

I don't consider it such, but in the eyes of some, it is. Many armchair basketball fans have been coming out of the woodwork the last two years claiming that UA actually made a mistake in letting Gottfried go.

RichTide said...

Really appreciate your thoughts. Interesting. Sounds like the NBA has made it to the college game. Even beyond coaching up players or instilling fundamentals, there were things about Grant I wished he had learned or built an instinct for in the past 6 years. Just his substitution patterns and time out usage alone were quizzical: taking out the hot hand, sitting the best outside shooter for halves and games at a time when you needed to open up the zone, allowing teams to go on big time runs, losing games by single digits and not calling TOs in the final minutes.

Winter is vball club season so Bama is the only team I make the time to watch. Didn't realize fundamentals were that scarce. The women's game is still strongly steeped in fundamentals which is why I stuck to coaching ladies!

Msmilie said...

Ron: In your opinion, should the university make a head coaching change? Are there things beyond merely the games that we as fans are not taking into account when calling for a change? I don't have the information that Bill Battle has at hand when he must make a decision regarding the basketball program. It just feels like to me that it might be the best thing for both the university and Anthony Grant at this time.

RichTide said...

Again, disclaimer, Mark was a friend. I was disppointed he was forced to leave. There was a cancer on his staff that would have been tough for any coach to overcome. Ultimately his personal choices distracted him from running the program and damaged relationships beyond repair. I can hate the sin and love the sinner but in the big boy world of college hoops, that's not good enough. As a fan, I agreed he had to go. Was hoping the break away from coaching would help him get his life in order, but it may have done the reverse. Being on ESPN only fed his ego.

Msmilie said...

I appreciate your honesty.

RichTide said...

And I, your loyalty

disqus_lLg81JC3CF said...

You have a compelling point of view. On a lighter note, the "business" of basketball could be depicted in a graph with just 2 lines. Linear, a top line would be drawn to show an 8.2 million dollar surplus in the basketball program (2013-2014 numbers reported in the media), and below the top line is a bottom line drawn with a 4 million dollar buyout. Lines usually are connected to get to a point, ha ha.

CTider said...

I don't despise Grant. He's not getting the job done and I want someone in there who will. Nothing personal.

finebammer said...

it's good to see some here jumping on the bandwagon i've been pulling for over two decades.


when the athletic dept, i want to say under the direction of steve sloan, responded to dale brown's sniveling tirade by moving the student section into the corner it's in now in the late eighties, it's absolutely poisoned our basketball program. wimp sanderson and mark gottfried railed against it. tide pride ticket holders have been given the prime seating TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE PROGRAM.


it would be one thing if they showed up on a consistent basis and helped generate energy. AS I'VE BEEN SAYING FOR YEARS when they do show up they sit on their hands. more often than not, they just don't show.


i would submit to you that 5 rows on either side of the court, 5 rows full of loud, boisterous students would aid significantly in securing 3 to 4 wins a season at home.


it's called GIVING YOUR TEAM A HOME COURT ADVANTAGE.


it's bad enough they play in an environment not designed for basketball. but i gave up on that years ago. they can build a new venue for baseball, which will NEVER MAKE ONE RED CENT, but not basketball which consistently carries it's own weight despite all of it's warts.


but there are things that can be done inside that arena that can give our b'ball program advantages. the seating angle needs to be changed. they do not need 15000 seats in that arena. 10000 tops.


hire me. i guarantee you i could transform that venue into something folks would want to come and see. why? because i WANT IT.


and ultimately, that's the problem down there. they don't have somebody who CARES.


i'm not a graduate. i'm not a season ticket holder. (but i have argued with season ticket holders)(at games)(it usually went like this: season ticket holder, 'sit down'. me, 'get off your ass') but i've followed this team to places around the country i'll guarantee you 99.9 per cent of those fat asses haven't. i've dragged my dead ass to work on days after showing up for the mid week games because i knew they needed me there more then than on a saturday.


there's nothing special about me. i just want it. while everyone else has said no, i say why not?


it's not fair. it's not fair to any coach to hire him, tell him to win, hang his employment over his head if he doesn't, then not give him every advantage, every tool to do his job.


they can fire Grant. they can bring in another coach. they can (and will) spend millions doing it. but if something isn't done to change that dead, dead, dead venue, they're pissing in the wind.


they might as well save they money, the trouble and keep Grant.


just don't expect me to participate in a half-assed effort. my years of doing that are over.

Bogie said...

Ron, a LOT of people care. Unfortunately, we are having to battle against many of our own "Leadership" whose actions over the last 25 years prove they do not have teh same level of care and passion

finebammer said...

to whoever is manipulating the way the comments are being posted, it makes them incredibly hard to understand.

Drifter said...

You can sort the comments by "oldest first", "newest first", or "best first".
The default is "best first."
I find that I have to reset it every time I look at the site :(



'

finebammer said...

thanks drift. don't know how that got reset. likely the NSA. ;-)====

bobbyjack said...

Wow... A ton of comments here. Didn't see the game, but from what I understand (and reading DJC's excellent summary above) it was the same song and dance.
I think Grant will be back next year. Some of that is just a bad vibe, some of that is info fed to me that has generally been accurate, some of it is my lack of confidence in Battle/puppetmasters. Until proven differently I don't think the powers that be really care to be ultra competitive in men's hoops. Sure we paid a mid major coach $1.8 million (and I'll point out my initial questioning later on), resurfaced Coleman, but really... what have they done to entice fan interest? I started this blog almost 9 years ago as a place for fans to read up on hoops without the football stuff... I have probably done as much as they have (and only my time was spent).

Drifter said...

Is this a record for number of comments?

CTider said...

For people who say Alabama fans don't care about basketball, this is proof that the fans are dying for even a decent program. A lot of people want this program to be successful. I'm not sure how many of those people are in the athletic department, unfortunately.

CTider said...

I agree, unfortunately. I still think Grant will be back. I desperately hope I'm wrong.

RichTide said...

enough money to buy out Grant is there; "powers that be" not in agreement he should go. injuries providing a very strong rationale to keep him...

Frances said...

Re: "A 2-0 start to league play, and it looks like a 5-11 finish unless this team shocks the hell out of me on Saturday."

I hope that you've gotten over your shock.